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	<title>Comments on: Paul Graham &#8211; from social shyness to patronizing</title>
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	<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/</link>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3950</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3950</guid>
		<description>While I don&#039;t always agree with Paul Graham&#039;s point of view and some of his essays tend to rub me the wrong way from time to time, I would hardly say that he speaks out of his areas of expertise very often.  First, most of his articles are related to either Computer Science topics or Startups, both topics of which I&#039;m sure he is well suited to talk about given his academic background and his experience with Viaweb and Y Combinator.  Second, even those articles that do not directly deal with either of the aforementioned topics tend to have an underlying purpose that can be directly linked back to either one--think of these essays as allegory.  Finally, I noticed that the example you gave of Graham talking out of his area of expertise is in the essay in which he speaks about How Art Can Be Good.  Well, I&#039;m not sure if you&#039;re aware of his background or not, but he did study painting at two of the most prestigious schools in the world (the Rhode Island School of Design and the Academy of Fine Arts in Florence) so I would guess that his background most likely makes him more suited to speak on this topic than yours would give you license to criticize him on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I don&#8217;t always agree with Paul Graham&#8217;s point of view and some of his essays tend to rub me the wrong way from time to time, I would hardly say that he speaks out of his areas of expertise very often.  First, most of his articles are related to either Computer Science topics or Startups, both topics of which I&#8217;m sure he is well suited to talk about given his academic background and his experience with Viaweb and Y Combinator.  Second, even those articles that do not directly deal with either of the aforementioned topics tend to have an underlying purpose that can be directly linked back to either one&#8211;think of these essays as allegory.  Finally, I noticed that the example you gave of Graham talking out of his area of expertise is in the essay in which he speaks about How Art Can Be Good.  Well, I&#8217;m not sure if you&#8217;re aware of his background or not, but he did study painting at two of the most prestigious schools in the world (the Rhode Island School of Design and the Academy of Fine Arts in Florence) so I would guess that his background most likely makes him more suited to speak on this topic than yours would give you license to criticize him on it.</p>
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		<title>By: tc</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3948</link>
		<dc:creator>tc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3948</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t call me a &quot;wannabe&quot; or &quot;fanboy&quot;.  I like to think I&#039;d defend anybody you called names, without even apparent cause.



Fran: I tried reading this article with a mind towards culture, but then it looks even worse.  When the response to a &quot;Here&#039;s what I think, and here&#039;s why&quot; essay is mere name-calling, it&#039;s hard to imagine any light in which that will look good.



(Are we supposed to say &quot;Oh, some experts on the internet think his arguments are childish and annoying.  They must be right!  Even though they can&#039;t point out any flaws.&quot;?)



If you need to &quot;work&quot; in &quot;culture&quot; for &quot;a few decades&quot; to be able to see why a reasonable-looking argument is bunk, and the best response one can summon is name-calling, that looks symptomatic of a field that *needs* such iconoclastic people.



I&#039;m not saying everything has to be science and logic, and I&#039;m not saying PG&#039;s essays are without flaw.  There are good critiques of them; this is not one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t call me a &#8220;wannabe&#8221; or &#8220;fanboy&#8221;.  I like to think I&#8217;d defend anybody you called names, without even apparent cause.</p>
<p>Fran: I tried reading this article with a mind towards culture, but then it looks even worse.  When the response to a &#8220;Here&#8217;s what I think, and here&#8217;s why&#8221; essay is mere name-calling, it&#8217;s hard to imagine any light in which that will look good.</p>
<p>(Are we supposed to say &#8220;Oh, some experts on the internet think his arguments are childish and annoying.  They must be right!  Even though they can&#8217;t point out any flaws.&#8221;?)</p>
<p>If you need to &#8220;work&#8221; in &#8220;culture&#8221; for &#8220;a few decades&#8221; to be able to see why a reasonable-looking argument is bunk, and the best response one can summon is name-calling, that looks symptomatic of a field that *needs* such iconoclastic people.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying everything has to be science and logic, and I&#8217;m not saying PG&#8217;s essays are without flaw.  There are good critiques of them; this is not one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: TomH</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3947</link>
		<dc:creator>TomH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3947</guid>
		<description>And Fran, so it is that the cultural elites most jealously guard their turf.



&quot;It is all consensus&quot; you say.



What a neat little insight into what is so wrong with your group-think world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Fran, so it is that the cultural elites most jealously guard their turf.</p>
<p>&#8220;It is all consensus&#8221; you say.</p>
<p>What a neat little insight into what is so wrong with your group-think world.</p>
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		<title>By: TomH</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3951</link>
		<dc:creator>TomH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3951</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re certainly entitled to disagree with anything PG or anyone else thinks, I just don&#039;t see what there is to be &quot;upset&quot; or &quot;annoyed&quot; about.



He&#039;s just a guy who thinks a lot about stuff, and sometimes likes to put his thoughts into lengthy discussion pieces and put them out there for other people to think about if they choose to.  That&#039;s not patronising, it&#039;s contributing to public discussion and helping himself and others to form more robust opinions.



As it turns out, his writings strongly resonate for a lot of, well, geeks like him.



Whilst evoking entertaining thoughts of how the world would be if everyone were to limit their discussions to some tightly defined &quot;area of expertise&quot;, your piece does nothing to advance any debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re certainly entitled to disagree with anything PG or anyone else thinks, I just don&#8217;t see what there is to be &#8220;upset&#8221; or &#8220;annoyed&#8221; about.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s just a guy who thinks a lot about stuff, and sometimes likes to put his thoughts into lengthy discussion pieces and put them out there for other people to think about if they choose to.  That&#8217;s not patronising, it&#8217;s contributing to public discussion and helping himself and others to form more robust opinions.</p>
<p>As it turns out, his writings strongly resonate for a lot of, well, geeks like him.</p>
<p>Whilst evoking entertaining thoughts of how the world would be if everyone were to limit their discussions to some tightly defined &#8220;area of expertise&#8221;, your piece does nothing to advance any debate.</p>
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		<title>By: fran</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3956</link>
		<dc:creator>fran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3956</guid>
		<description>Awww, look! A link was posted to Hacker News and a bunch of PG wannabe fanboys have shown up to defend their hero! &quot;Give us proof!&quot; they say. I guess that they read in a PG essay that this is the critical point in essay writing! Here&#039;s a secret: art is not mathematics, there is no &quot;proof&quot;, it is all consensus and experience and aesthetics and talent. Those of us who have been on the culture bus for a few decades just cringe when we read his essays about subjects far outside his domain of expertise. I guess the &quot;proof&quot; is that those of us who have been working in this area for a long time think his culture writing is silly. Remember Bush talking about &quot;the internets&quot;? That&#039;s what PG sounds like to us, that he knows a little and is trying to sound like he understands it in depth. In contrast his writing about technology and technology business is excellent. He should stick to writing about what he knows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awww, look! A link was posted to Hacker News and a bunch of PG wannabe fanboys have shown up to defend their hero! &#8220;Give us proof!&#8221; they say. I guess that they read in a PG essay that this is the critical point in essay writing! Here&#8217;s a secret: art is not mathematics, there is no &#8220;proof&#8221;, it is all consensus and experience and aesthetics and talent. Those of us who have been on the culture bus for a few decades just cringe when we read his essays about subjects far outside his domain of expertise. I guess the &#8220;proof&#8221; is that those of us who have been working in this area for a long time think his culture writing is silly. Remember Bush talking about &#8220;the internets&#8221;? That&#8217;s what PG sounds like to us, that he knows a little and is trying to sound like he understands it in depth. In contrast his writing about technology and technology business is excellent. He should stick to writing about what he knows.</p>
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		<title>By: Blade Conway</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3955</link>
		<dc:creator>Blade Conway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3955</guid>
		<description>Well, you were successful at establishing ONE thing:



techiteasy.org sure as hell ain&#039;t the intellectual capital of anything.



Here&#039;s a hint: if you think PG is wrong, SHOW HOW HE&#039;S WRONG. Name calling and whining about being &quot;patronizing&quot; don&#039;t do anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you were successful at establishing ONE thing:</p>
<p>techiteasy.org sure as hell ain&#8217;t the intellectual capital of anything.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a hint: if you think PG is wrong, SHOW HOW HE&#8217;S WRONG. Name calling and whining about being &#8220;patronizing&#8221; don&#8217;t do anything.</p>
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		<title>By: tc</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3954</link>
		<dc:creator>tc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3954</guid>
		<description>&quot;the essay was rather childish and narrow-minded&quot;



If you have arguments, just present them.  Name-calling is just wasting our time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the essay was rather childish and narrow-minded&#8221;</p>
<p>If you have arguments, just present them.  Name-calling is just wasting our time.</p>
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		<title>By: Vincent van Wylick</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3945</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent van Wylick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3945</guid>
		<description>I think, if Mr. G. had renamed his essay to &quot;universities,&quot; he could&#039;ve saved himself some criticism as their IQs are clearly measurable. Call 1 city more intelligent than others, and you risk insulting the other 3158+. That said, even city IQs are measurable, I imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think, if Mr. G. had renamed his essay to &#8220;universities,&#8221; he could&#8217;ve saved himself some criticism as their IQs are clearly measurable. Call 1 city more intelligent than others, and you risk insulting the other 3158+. That said, even city IQs are measurable, I imagine.</p>
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		<title>By: ceciiil</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3946</link>
		<dc:creator>ceciiil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3946</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying he&#039;s right or wrong i&#039;m saying he&#039;s patronizing.



He&#039;s been successful in the IT industry so he tells you how to be.  Fair enough. As far as I know he has not been in Art, philosophy or sociology.



So his patronizing tone become quite embarassing when he tries to tackle these areas.



On the Cities topic, it&#039;s quite strange to have this addressed by someone who has patently social difficulties (school, corporate culture, etc ...). Eavesdropping to get the vibe of the city is pretty symptomatic.



One can say what s/he wants on the internet, that&#039;s true. But between ranting on something on a post blog and engraving immutable truth into bloating essay, there&#039;s a huge difference.



Lastly I&#039;m 100% behind Idle Words post here : PG agenda with these essays is to pretend he&#039;s a cool, international and arty bloke. If he actually was, he would not try to persuade everyone around (including himself) he is. Think Hugh McLeod.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying he&#8217;s right or wrong i&#8217;m saying he&#8217;s patronizing.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s been successful in the IT industry so he tells you how to be.  Fair enough. As far as I know he has not been in Art, philosophy or sociology.</p>
<p>So his patronizing tone become quite embarassing when he tries to tackle these areas.</p>
<p>On the Cities topic, it&#8217;s quite strange to have this addressed by someone who has patently social difficulties (school, corporate culture, etc &#8230;). Eavesdropping to get the vibe of the city is pretty symptomatic.</p>
<p>One can say what s/he wants on the internet, that&#8217;s true. But between ranting on something on a post blog and engraving immutable truth into bloating essay, there&#8217;s a huge difference.</p>
<p>Lastly I&#8217;m 100% behind Idle Words post here : PG agenda with these essays is to pretend he&#8217;s a cool, international and arty bloke. If he actually was, he would not try to persuade everyone around (including himself) he is. Think Hugh McLeod.</p>
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		<title>By: Vincent van Wylick</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3944</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent van Wylick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3944</guid>
		<description>The thing about Cambridge is also that he&#039;s not wrong. You could say a lot of things about cities like London, NYC, Paris, but not &lt;b&gt;only&lt;/b&gt; that people are intelligent.



Cambridge is a small place with a tradition for intellectual excellence. There are few places in this world that qualify as such. And I can only think of the ones that host the best universities (and not much else), Harvard, Oxford, etc., some of which are focussed on a particular kind of smart, while Cambridge, I don&#039;t know, may be focussed on many kinds of smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing about Cambridge is also that he&#8217;s not wrong. You could say a lot of things about cities like London, NYC, Paris, but not <b>only</b> that people are intelligent.</p>
<p>Cambridge is a small place with a tradition for intellectual excellence. There are few places in this world that qualify as such. And I can only think of the ones that host the best universities (and not much else), Harvard, Oxford, etc., some of which are focussed on a particular kind of smart, while Cambridge, I don&#8217;t know, may be focussed on many kinds of smart.</p>
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		<title>By: Kari Silvennoinen</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3953</link>
		<dc:creator>Kari Silvennoinen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3953</guid>
		<description>Matthias, well, I wouldn&#039;t mind living in Berkeley if PG says it&#039;s the place for me...



But hey, this is internet and everyone is entitled to express their opinions. I guess you&#039;re right Vincent, that one thing that could explain his message is to see it having differnet agenda than &quot;realism&quot; (or accuracy, I don&#039;t know what people expect from him, in fact).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthias, well, I wouldn&#8217;t mind living in Berkeley if PG says it&#8217;s the place for me&#8230;</p>
<p>But hey, this is internet and everyone is entitled to express their opinions. I guess you&#8217;re right Vincent, that one thing that could explain his message is to see it having differnet agenda than &#8220;realism&#8221; (or accuracy, I don&#8217;t know what people expect from him, in fact).</p>
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		<title>By: Vincent van Wylick</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3952</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent van Wylick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 07:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3952</guid>
		<description>The thing about Paul Graham, and everyone basically, is that he has an agenda. For Graham it&#039;s Y!Combinator, to which he sends a message:



Be smart (Cambridge)

Be the best (Mona Lisa)

Don&#039;t fear the giants (his &quot;Microsoft is weak&quot; post)

etc.



Just like a father, who tells his children to not touch the hot pan because the devil will bite them, realism is perhaps not on the top of his mind when he tries to educate and motivate people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing about Paul Graham, and everyone basically, is that he has an agenda. For Graham it&#8217;s Y!Combinator, to which he sends a message:</p>
<p>Be smart (Cambridge)</p>
<p>Be the best (Mona Lisa)</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t fear the giants (his &#8220;Microsoft is weak&#8221; post)</p>
<p>etc.</p>
<p>Just like a father, who tells his children to not touch the hot pan because the devil will bite them, realism is perhaps not on the top of his mind when he tries to educate and motivate people.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthias</title>
		<link>http://www.techiteasy.org/2008/06/03/paul-graham-from-social-shyness-to-patronizing/#comment-3949</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremyfain.wordpress.com/?p=984#comment-3949</guid>
		<description>Very good, Cecil! I came across Paul Graham&#039;s cities-article and wondered how he could come up with such conclusions. At least he did some travelling in Europe...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good, Cecil! I came across Paul Graham&#8217;s cities-article and wondered how he could come up with such conclusions. At least he did some travelling in Europe&#8230;</p>
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